Topics for Youth Group
How do we live as citizens of the Kingdom?
1) Sex
2) Self Image
3) Environment
4) Drugs
5) Family
6) Outward Appearances
7) Money
8) Relationships
9) Security
10) Plans/Future
11) Humility
12) Making Decisions
13) Time
14) Hospitality
15) Parties/Social Situations
16) Conflict
17) Friendships
18) Community 19SEP
See also Deb Hirch's ideas on post last week.
Magazine ananysis to see what the world is saying. They pay money-why?
Wednesday, September 30, 2009
I believe it is better, a better truer fuller life. He is life.
Great commission of Love
my love to be the gateway to the unconditional love of God is better by far. I can't love you the way that you want to be loved; but God can.
If I withheld that love and did not want others to receive that unconditional love of God than I would be like Jonah to the Ninivaties, witholding the good news.
my love to be the gateway to the unconditional love of God is better by far. I can't love you the way that you want to be loved; but God can.
If I withheld that love and did not want others to receive that unconditional love of God than I would be like Jonah to the Ninivaties, witholding the good news.
Wednesday, September 23, 2009
life management stuff web site links
http://www.preachingtoday.com/illustrations/
http://www.echoprayer.com/front/welcome.php
http://mymemorizer.com/
www.mvelopes.com
www.simpleology.com
Book recomendations for different areas of life- 360
Crazy l-neil
http://www.echoprayer.com/front/welcome.php
http://mymemorizer.com/
www.mvelopes.com
www.simpleology.com
Book recomendations for different areas of life- 360
Crazy l-neil
Tuesday, September 22, 2009
deb H and kingdom ways
http://www.preachingtoday.com/illustrations/
We get immersed in the world.
What I want to talk about is what it is to live as kingdom people.
Discipleship.
Critique and see some of the obstacles that keep us from living like kingdom people.
Challenge ourselves to be more christ-like and more free.
There ought to be a quality about us who follow Jesus that make people look twice at our lives.
1) Distorted views of Jesus
God created man in His image and then man returned the favor."
Not "nice" but loving all the time. Real. We have domesticated him. Trapped inside a church. Sanitized. Rubbed people the wrong way. Not all the social graces. not smiley happy and say nice things to each other. Jesus was authentic and real. HOLIEST MAN on earth. But he was deeply loving. All the unholy were drawn to him even though they ran from the religious.
Holiness is inside out. Moralism is outside. You are... Embrace those images and remove the unhelpful ones. Self image is attached to purpose. If you think purpose is 'ahole' then that is how you will act. Or if your identity is something good you will live in that and aim at that.
2) View of Self- deeply impacts us as people. Can limit our freedom. Replace old negative labels or identities with things that God says about us.
3) View of Others
"First thing you can say about any human being on the planet?"
Do we think of others as sinners who need to be saved first or As people who have been made in the image of God had have fallen short and need to be saved. It is a primary truth. In God's image first before the fall. Then the sin.
4)Romantic love- different types of love (4 loves)
Permeates our society. For good and for bad. Fed to us through all the media; movies, books, music. Good feeling type of love. Consumeristic type of love. Problem is that it has so saturated our society that it is the love that we hold as the ideal love.
Romantic love will get you to the alter but it is not romantic love that will take you the distance. We need another type of love for this. ex "after three years 'we're out of love. We're thinking of divorcing. We've fallen out of love.' They had fallen out of romantic love. But the sad thing is that this is exactly the time that real love can be expressed.
EX. Dogs are abandoned 6-8 weeks after Christmas. They had this romantic, lovely image of a puppy and they go and poo all over the place. When the reality hits we freak out. Isn't that terrible?
(Sacrificial or)faithful love. Will keep us in relationships. Foundational of all love. The type of love that Jesus loves us with. We need to receive this love from him. He asks us to love other in this love. How does this work? There is no situation in which you can not love someone. You can always love.
5) How we spend our money
Stewardship. Trust in money or in the Father.
See Foster- Money, Sex, and power.
2nd most talked about topic by Jesus is money. Do we attach value to it beyond it's worth. Observe Rich don't have any more to gain by getting more money. More cars, clothes, etc than we need. We are consumers. It is a blind spot. Seductive.
*Identity, purpose, meaning, and belonging now make consumerism an official religion. "She was worked to death making things that we try not to call shit."
6)Status Anxiety- Everyone wants to be noticed, to get attention. we begin to measure our self worth against one another. We climb over each other to get noticed. When we are on the same level we are happy but we are not satisfied with being the same or having enough. We get status anxiety.
7)Family- nuclear family as an idol- if only we could get back to that everything would be alright. If we are 1st concerned with this unit we can loose the social justice that we are called to. Safety and comfort over calling and looking after than more than your own. There are a lot of lost out there with no family to call their own. Let your family be a reflection of the kingdom and of heaven.
Peace- Not just the antonym of war. Shalom. "So Gideon built an altar to the LORD there and called it The LORD is Peace." Judges 6:24 "Yahweh-shalom"
Colossians 3:1-17
Scripture
"Rules for Holy Living
1Since, then, you have been raised with Christ, set your hearts on things above, where Christ is seated at the right hand of God. 2Set your minds on things above, not on earthly things. 3For you died, and your life is now hidden with Christ in God. 4When Christ, who is youra life, appears, then you also will appear with him in glory.
5Put to death, therefore, whatever belongs to your earthly nature: sexual immorality, impurity, lust, evil desires and greed, which is idolatry. 6Because of these, the wrath of God is coming.b 7You used to walk in these ways, in the life you once lived. 8But now you must rid yourselves of all such things as these: anger, rage, malice, slander, and filthy language from your lips. 9Do not lie to each other, since you have taken off your old self with its practices 10and have put on the new self, which is being renewed in knowledge in the image of its Creator. 11Here there is no Greek or Jew, circumcised or uncircumcised, barbarian, Scythian, slave or free, but Christ is all, and is in all.
12Therefore, as God’s chosen people, holy and dearly loved, clothe yourselves with compassion, kindness, humility, gentleness and patience. 13Bear with each other and forgive whatever grievances you may have against one another. Forgive as the Lord forgave you. 14And over all these virtues put on love, which binds them all together in perfect unity.
15Let the peace of Christ rule in your hearts, since as members of one body you were called to peace. And be thankful. 16Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly as you teach and admonish one another with all wisdom, and as you sing psalms, hymns and spiritual songs with gratitude in your hearts to God. 17And whatever you do, whether in word or deed, do it all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God the Father through him."
Story
Principle
Challenge
What would it be like to encounter God?
Question
We get immersed in the world.
What I want to talk about is what it is to live as kingdom people.
Discipleship.
Critique and see some of the obstacles that keep us from living like kingdom people.
Challenge ourselves to be more christ-like and more free.
There ought to be a quality about us who follow Jesus that make people look twice at our lives.
1) Distorted views of Jesus
God created man in His image and then man returned the favor."
Not "nice" but loving all the time. Real. We have domesticated him. Trapped inside a church. Sanitized. Rubbed people the wrong way. Not all the social graces. not smiley happy and say nice things to each other. Jesus was authentic and real. HOLIEST MAN on earth. But he was deeply loving. All the unholy were drawn to him even though they ran from the religious.
Holiness is inside out. Moralism is outside. You are... Embrace those images and remove the unhelpful ones. Self image is attached to purpose. If you think purpose is 'ahole' then that is how you will act. Or if your identity is something good you will live in that and aim at that.
2) View of Self- deeply impacts us as people. Can limit our freedom. Replace old negative labels or identities with things that God says about us.
3) View of Others
"First thing you can say about any human being on the planet?"
Do we think of others as sinners who need to be saved first or As people who have been made in the image of God had have fallen short and need to be saved. It is a primary truth. In God's image first before the fall. Then the sin.
4)Romantic love- different types of love (4 loves)
Permeates our society. For good and for bad. Fed to us through all the media; movies, books, music. Good feeling type of love. Consumeristic type of love. Problem is that it has so saturated our society that it is the love that we hold as the ideal love.
Romantic love will get you to the alter but it is not romantic love that will take you the distance. We need another type of love for this. ex "after three years 'we're out of love. We're thinking of divorcing. We've fallen out of love.' They had fallen out of romantic love. But the sad thing is that this is exactly the time that real love can be expressed.
EX. Dogs are abandoned 6-8 weeks after Christmas. They had this romantic, lovely image of a puppy and they go and poo all over the place. When the reality hits we freak out. Isn't that terrible?
(Sacrificial or)faithful love. Will keep us in relationships. Foundational of all love. The type of love that Jesus loves us with. We need to receive this love from him. He asks us to love other in this love. How does this work? There is no situation in which you can not love someone. You can always love.
5) How we spend our money
Stewardship. Trust in money or in the Father.
See Foster- Money, Sex, and power.
2nd most talked about topic by Jesus is money. Do we attach value to it beyond it's worth. Observe Rich don't have any more to gain by getting more money. More cars, clothes, etc than we need. We are consumers. It is a blind spot. Seductive.
*Identity, purpose, meaning, and belonging now make consumerism an official religion. "She was worked to death making things that we try not to call shit."
6)Status Anxiety- Everyone wants to be noticed, to get attention. we begin to measure our self worth against one another. We climb over each other to get noticed. When we are on the same level we are happy but we are not satisfied with being the same or having enough. We get status anxiety.
7)Family- nuclear family as an idol- if only we could get back to that everything would be alright. If we are 1st concerned with this unit we can loose the social justice that we are called to. Safety and comfort over calling and looking after than more than your own. There are a lot of lost out there with no family to call their own. Let your family be a reflection of the kingdom and of heaven.
Peace- Not just the antonym of war. Shalom. "So Gideon built an altar to the LORD there and called it The LORD is Peace." Judges 6:24 "Yahweh-shalom"
Colossians 3:1-17
Scripture
"Rules for Holy Living
1Since, then, you have been raised with Christ, set your hearts on things above, where Christ is seated at the right hand of God. 2Set your minds on things above, not on earthly things. 3For you died, and your life is now hidden with Christ in God. 4When Christ, who is youra life, appears, then you also will appear with him in glory.
5Put to death, therefore, whatever belongs to your earthly nature: sexual immorality, impurity, lust, evil desires and greed, which is idolatry. 6Because of these, the wrath of God is coming.b 7You used to walk in these ways, in the life you once lived. 8But now you must rid yourselves of all such things as these: anger, rage, malice, slander, and filthy language from your lips. 9Do not lie to each other, since you have taken off your old self with its practices 10and have put on the new self, which is being renewed in knowledge in the image of its Creator. 11Here there is no Greek or Jew, circumcised or uncircumcised, barbarian, Scythian, slave or free, but Christ is all, and is in all.
12Therefore, as God’s chosen people, holy and dearly loved, clothe yourselves with compassion, kindness, humility, gentleness and patience. 13Bear with each other and forgive whatever grievances you may have against one another. Forgive as the Lord forgave you. 14And over all these virtues put on love, which binds them all together in perfect unity.
15Let the peace of Christ rule in your hearts, since as members of one body you were called to peace. And be thankful. 16Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly as you teach and admonish one another with all wisdom, and as you sing psalms, hymns and spiritual songs with gratitude in your hearts to God. 17And whatever you do, whether in word or deed, do it all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God the Father through him."
Story
Principle
Challenge
What would it be like to encounter God?
Question
Sunday, September 20, 2009
Saturday, September 19, 2009
Prayer from FO
God,
Thank you for the worthiness you have given me to pray to you brought to me through the mercy displayed in your Son's sacrifice on the cross and the grace of the resurrection of me in the Spirit that you have given me access to.
Thank you for the creative way you make each one of us and the way you uniquely knit me in love. I ask you to give me security in the way you made me. To have peace and joy for the gifts of questioning and truth seeking and caring for people. I am sorry for the times I doubted the gifts you put in me and did not use them to love others. I am sorry for the times that I used them to prove my worth and identity to myself and others. I thank you for putting in me the pursuit of truth which comes from you. Thanks for showing me a perfect love that I can imperfectly love others with.
Please show me more clearly how you made me and give me eyes and ears to your spirit with discernment of when and how to act.
Amen
Adam
Thank you for the worthiness you have given me to pray to you brought to me through the mercy displayed in your Son's sacrifice on the cross and the grace of the resurrection of me in the Spirit that you have given me access to.
Thank you for the creative way you make each one of us and the way you uniquely knit me in love. I ask you to give me security in the way you made me. To have peace and joy for the gifts of questioning and truth seeking and caring for people. I am sorry for the times I doubted the gifts you put in me and did not use them to love others. I am sorry for the times that I used them to prove my worth and identity to myself and others. I thank you for putting in me the pursuit of truth which comes from you. Thanks for showing me a perfect love that I can imperfectly love others with.
Please show me more clearly how you made me and give me eyes and ears to your spirit with discernment of when and how to act.
Amen
Adam
Friday, September 11, 2009
unity- one body
Start- story of my faith;
Jesus, Lord and Savior. Isa43:11 "I, even I, am the Lord,and apart from me there is no savior.12I have revealed and saved and proclaimed—I, and not some foreign god among you."
Division in family over Catholic /Christian.
But miss Jesus in their traditions. Adventures in missing the point.
It breaks my heart to see people loose Jesus in the details or the form. Don't you get it? It's not about
John 17:23 I in them, and you in me, that they may be perfected into one; that the world may know that you sent me, and loved them, even as you loved me.
Ephesians 4:3-5 "Make every effort to keep the unity of the Spirit through the bond of peace. 4There is one body and one Spirit—just as you were called to one hope when you were called— 5one Lord, one faith, one baptism; 6one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all. of the Spirit in the bond of peace.
How many hopes do we have? Does youth group have a different hope than ICCP?
Does the Catholic church have a different Spirit than the Christian church? Are we many bodies because there is one head and that is Jesus.
Will people tune me out when I mention a certain author or use a line from his book like adventure of missing the point? Will we turn against each other?
Will we keep the relationships in mind? Keep Jesus in mind? How many men do we have faith in? ONE
One God and Father of all.
"Salvation is found in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given to men by which we must be saved." Acts 4:12
1 Timothy 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator also between God and men, the man Christ Jesus,
Exodus 20:2-6 “I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of Egypt, out of the land of slavery.
3“You shall have no other gods beforea me.
4“You shall not make for yourself an idol in the form of anything in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the waters below. 5You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, punishing the children for the sin of the fathers to the third and fourth generation of those who hate me, 6but showing love to a thousand [generations] of those who love me and keep my commandments. (What are we putting before Jesus? Why are we not thinking of the kingdom? He is one)
One body
From him the whole body, joined and held together by every supporting ligament, grows and builds itself up in love, as each part does its work.
Find Christ is the head of the church
1 Corinthians 12- we as one body
This is how they will know you are mine is that you love one another.
Prayer in the garden. Blood dripping out his pours about to be crucified and three times he prayes for unity.
"10I appeal to you, brothers, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that all of you agree with one another so that there may be no divisions among you and that you may be perfectly united in mind and thought. 11My brothers, some from Chloe’s household have informed me that there are quarrels among you. 12What I mean is this: One of you says, “I follow Paul”; another, “I follow Apollos”; another, “I follow Cephasa”; still another, “I follow Christ.”
13Is Christ divided? Was Paul crucified for you? Were you baptized intob the name of Paul? 14I am thankful that I did not baptize any of you except Crispus and Gaius, 15so no one can say that you were baptized into my name. 16(Yes, I also baptized the household of Stephanas; beyond that, I don’t remember if I baptized anyone else.) 17For Christ did not send me to baptize, but to preach the gospel—not with words of human wisdom, lest the cross of Christ be emptied of its power.
Christ the Wisdom and Power of God
18For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God. 19For it is written:
“I will destroy the wisdom of the wise;
the intelligence of the intelligent I will frustrate.”c
20Where is the wise man? Where is the scholar? Where is the philosopher of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world? 21For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not know him, God was pleased through the foolishness of what was preached to save those who believe. 22Jews demand miraculous signs and Greeks look for wisdom, 23but we preach Christ crucified: a stumbling block to Jews and foolishness to Gentiles, 24but to those whom God has called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God. 25For the foolishness of God is wiser than man’s wisdom, and the weakness of God is stronger than man’s strength. " 1Cor 1:10-24
And What is the wisdom of our age? Do we follow a type of church model? A book? an insight as accurate as it might be
Jesus, Lord and Savior. Isa43:11 "I, even I, am the Lord,and apart from me there is no savior.12I have revealed and saved and proclaimed—I, and not some foreign god among you."
Division in family over Catholic /Christian.
But miss Jesus in their traditions. Adventures in missing the point.
It breaks my heart to see people loose Jesus in the details or the form. Don't you get it? It's not about
John 17:23 I in them, and you in me, that they may be perfected into one; that the world may know that you sent me, and loved them, even as you loved me.
Ephesians 4:3-5 "Make every effort to keep the unity of the Spirit through the bond of peace. 4There is one body and one Spirit—just as you were called to one hope when you were called— 5one Lord, one faith, one baptism; 6one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all. of the Spirit in the bond of peace.
How many hopes do we have? Does youth group have a different hope than ICCP?
Does the Catholic church have a different Spirit than the Christian church? Are we many bodies because there is one head and that is Jesus.
Will people tune me out when I mention a certain author or use a line from his book like adventure of missing the point? Will we turn against each other?
Will we keep the relationships in mind? Keep Jesus in mind? How many men do we have faith in? ONE
One God and Father of all.
"Salvation is found in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given to men by which we must be saved." Acts 4:12
1 Timothy 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator also between God and men, the man Christ Jesus,
Exodus 20:2-6 “I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of Egypt, out of the land of slavery.
3“You shall have no other gods beforea me.
4“You shall not make for yourself an idol in the form of anything in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the waters below. 5You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, punishing the children for the sin of the fathers to the third and fourth generation of those who hate me, 6but showing love to a thousand [generations] of those who love me and keep my commandments. (What are we putting before Jesus? Why are we not thinking of the kingdom? He is one)
One body
From him the whole body, joined and held together by every supporting ligament, grows and builds itself up in love, as each part does its work.
Find Christ is the head of the church
1 Corinthians 12- we as one body
This is how they will know you are mine is that you love one another.
Prayer in the garden. Blood dripping out his pours about to be crucified and three times he prayes for unity.
"10I appeal to you, brothers, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that all of you agree with one another so that there may be no divisions among you and that you may be perfectly united in mind and thought. 11My brothers, some from Chloe’s household have informed me that there are quarrels among you. 12What I mean is this: One of you says, “I follow Paul”; another, “I follow Apollos”; another, “I follow Cephasa”; still another, “I follow Christ.”
13Is Christ divided? Was Paul crucified for you? Were you baptized intob the name of Paul? 14I am thankful that I did not baptize any of you except Crispus and Gaius, 15so no one can say that you were baptized into my name. 16(Yes, I also baptized the household of Stephanas; beyond that, I don’t remember if I baptized anyone else.) 17For Christ did not send me to baptize, but to preach the gospel—not with words of human wisdom, lest the cross of Christ be emptied of its power.
Christ the Wisdom and Power of God
18For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God. 19For it is written:
“I will destroy the wisdom of the wise;
the intelligence of the intelligent I will frustrate.”c
20Where is the wise man? Where is the scholar? Where is the philosopher of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world? 21For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not know him, God was pleased through the foolishness of what was preached to save those who believe. 22Jews demand miraculous signs and Greeks look for wisdom, 23but we preach Christ crucified: a stumbling block to Jews and foolishness to Gentiles, 24but to those whom God has called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God. 25For the foolishness of God is wiser than man’s wisdom, and the weakness of God is stronger than man’s strength. " 1Cor 1:10-24
And What is the wisdom of our age? Do we follow a type of church model? A book? an insight as accurate as it might be
Monday, September 7, 2009
ICCP Testamonies of change in their lives, grace and abiding
Natalie Cunningham (Murray State KY) wroteon August 13, 2007 at 5:10am
Some of the staff may have remembered me when I first came to France, I thought I was going to change the world. I was going to revalutionize my study abroad program, people were going to be saved and filled with the Holy Spirit left and right. I never expected that I was going to be the one doing the changing. This seems like a story that I've relived over and over again, but I geuss until now that I have never learned my lesson.
The first thing I remember thinking about ICCP was, "well it'll be good to worship in english from time to time, but I probebly wont be challenged here, its one of those 'Grace Churches." Oh how the righteous fall and how God can humble those who chose not to humble themselves.
I believe I can honestly say that my semester in Aix was by far my most spiritally challenging semester of my college career. In a different country away from my church culture I was left to question EVERYTHING!!! If I was made to do it alone I don't know what I would have done. I look back on it now and I see every step of the way ICCP was there for me if i would only ask.
I realize now that this church, that I expected to be this small part of my study abroad experience, has become the one body of people that have taught me the most. It's all I talk about here at home. Uganda, how my ideas have changed, the fun we've had, etc.
EXAMPLE OF WISDOM:
Last night I had a friend over who I haven't spoken to in quiet a while. She moved in with her boyfriend and fell off the face of the earth. I found that the reason she refused to talk to people was because of her fear of what they would think. On one of my last days in France I had an amazing coffee with Tasha. There she told me many things, but one that I was able to use to help my friend. She told me "You never have to apologize to anyone for your sin. It is between you and God." Once I told my friend that you could just see the wheels in her head turning. SHe had never thought about it in that way. We were both brought up in a world were perfection was the goal and anything less was a disapointment to your elders and spiritual authorities.
If people take there sin and run, becasue they fear the response of their peers then no healing or repentence can happen. I fully believe in confession of sins, but it shouldn't result in disappointment but love and mourning together for sin.
That was just one thing, not to mention the Pettyjohns taking me in last minute when I got kicked out of my apartment, or the countless fun times; on the roof of the castle, on the roof of Dom's, at Apryl and Tim's
It really did make a difference for me, it was the difference of sitting home watching the clock till I could go to sleep and feeling like i had something to do and people to hang out with.
This was my long drawn out way to say that everyone at ICCP has changed me, soften me and shown me what Grace was all about.
Darren, Julie, Dom, Andy, Keri, Lindsey, Pat, Tasha, Adam, April, Tim, Teal, Meagan, and the Bates family who also loved me while I was there
I thank you from the bottom of my heart for what you are doing. You are making a difference and world will feel a change from all the work you are doing.
(p.s. please don't be offended if i happened to misspell your name, obviously spelling has never been my strong point)Report
Post #2Darrin Jones (France) replied to Natalie's poston August 27, 2007 at 12:48am
Natalie - thank you for your encouragement...
Amazing what God can do in a "Grace Church" isn't it??
After all, it's only in an atmosphere of grace that we can honestly deal with our real stuff.
Keep spreading the "infection" girl - you are awesome!!Report
Post #3Lindsey Pettyjohn (Indiana) replied to Natalie's poston August 31, 2007 at 10:30am
natalie,
that part where you said: "We were both brought up in a world were perfection was the goal and anything less was a disapointment to your elders and spiritual authorities."?...
i can totally relate...and the sad part is that that's totally what Jesus was NOT about...look at all the people he hung out with...the "unperfects". i think it's great that you can be there for your friend. keep on doing it. and remember that our goal is Jesus and living for him, not just pleasing our elders and spiritual leaders--'cause they're just as messed up as the rest of us. ;O)
Report
Post #4Rebecca Pearson Rudy (Eastern) wroteon September 29, 2008 at 2:43pm
My husband and I are going through a struggle of grace at our church and I am constantly encouraged remembering my experience at ICCP as well. The message of grace and "abiding in Christ" has been one point that keeps me moving forward in my own church. I have shared podcasts with my husband who is equally encouraged depsite that he has never been in fellowship at ICCP. I just want to second the complement to ICCP of being spiritually challenging and want to pray blessings to rain down in Aix.
Some of the staff may have remembered me when I first came to France, I thought I was going to change the world. I was going to revalutionize my study abroad program, people were going to be saved and filled with the Holy Spirit left and right. I never expected that I was going to be the one doing the changing. This seems like a story that I've relived over and over again, but I geuss until now that I have never learned my lesson.
The first thing I remember thinking about ICCP was, "well it'll be good to worship in english from time to time, but I probebly wont be challenged here, its one of those 'Grace Churches." Oh how the righteous fall and how God can humble those who chose not to humble themselves.
I believe I can honestly say that my semester in Aix was by far my most spiritally challenging semester of my college career. In a different country away from my church culture I was left to question EVERYTHING!!! If I was made to do it alone I don't know what I would have done. I look back on it now and I see every step of the way ICCP was there for me if i would only ask.
I realize now that this church, that I expected to be this small part of my study abroad experience, has become the one body of people that have taught me the most. It's all I talk about here at home. Uganda, how my ideas have changed, the fun we've had, etc.
EXAMPLE OF WISDOM:
Last night I had a friend over who I haven't spoken to in quiet a while. She moved in with her boyfriend and fell off the face of the earth. I found that the reason she refused to talk to people was because of her fear of what they would think. On one of my last days in France I had an amazing coffee with Tasha. There she told me many things, but one that I was able to use to help my friend. She told me "You never have to apologize to anyone for your sin. It is between you and God." Once I told my friend that you could just see the wheels in her head turning. SHe had never thought about it in that way. We were both brought up in a world were perfection was the goal and anything less was a disapointment to your elders and spiritual authorities.
If people take there sin and run, becasue they fear the response of their peers then no healing or repentence can happen. I fully believe in confession of sins, but it shouldn't result in disappointment but love and mourning together for sin.
That was just one thing, not to mention the Pettyjohns taking me in last minute when I got kicked out of my apartment, or the countless fun times; on the roof of the castle, on the roof of Dom's, at Apryl and Tim's
It really did make a difference for me, it was the difference of sitting home watching the clock till I could go to sleep and feeling like i had something to do and people to hang out with.
This was my long drawn out way to say that everyone at ICCP has changed me, soften me and shown me what Grace was all about.
Darren, Julie, Dom, Andy, Keri, Lindsey, Pat, Tasha, Adam, April, Tim, Teal, Meagan, and the Bates family who also loved me while I was there
I thank you from the bottom of my heart for what you are doing. You are making a difference and world will feel a change from all the work you are doing.
(p.s. please don't be offended if i happened to misspell your name, obviously spelling has never been my strong point)Report
Post #2Darrin Jones (France) replied to Natalie's poston August 27, 2007 at 12:48am
Natalie - thank you for your encouragement...
Amazing what God can do in a "Grace Church" isn't it??
After all, it's only in an atmosphere of grace that we can honestly deal with our real stuff.
Keep spreading the "infection" girl - you are awesome!!Report
Post #3Lindsey Pettyjohn (Indiana) replied to Natalie's poston August 31, 2007 at 10:30am
natalie,
that part where you said: "We were both brought up in a world were perfection was the goal and anything less was a disapointment to your elders and spiritual authorities."?...
i can totally relate...and the sad part is that that's totally what Jesus was NOT about...look at all the people he hung out with...the "unperfects". i think it's great that you can be there for your friend. keep on doing it. and remember that our goal is Jesus and living for him, not just pleasing our elders and spiritual leaders--'cause they're just as messed up as the rest of us. ;O)
Report
Post #4Rebecca Pearson Rudy (Eastern) wroteon September 29, 2008 at 2:43pm
My husband and I are going through a struggle of grace at our church and I am constantly encouraged remembering my experience at ICCP as well. The message of grace and "abiding in Christ" has been one point that keeps me moving forward in my own church. I have shared podcasts with my husband who is equally encouraged depsite that he has never been in fellowship at ICCP. I just want to second the complement to ICCP of being spiritually challenging and want to pray blessings to rain down in Aix.
Hil's notes on Morris
Download the original attachment
Hil & Dom breakfast with Linus & Sharron Morris:
-for ICCP, how do we reach more people than we’re losing?
(gradually build up the core of people staying)
-In MINISTRY, Linus and Sharron learned to set boundaries the hard way. Here are their examples:
*turn off phones at dinner
*email and make phone calls in one or two blocks of time a day, and that’s it- this allows you to have more emotional and relational time/creates space
*take days off
-In MINISTRY over the years, Linus & Sharron saw each other as a team…”we are in ministry together”
STAFF MEETING WITH LINUS & SHARRON:
-view transient community as an opportunity- NOT a future loss…view it as if you are making a “deposit” into these people’s lives
-ask God to always make what I am doing “fresh”
-Linus talked for a bit about Corey Ten Boom (look her up...the movie “The Hiding Place” was made from her autobiography)
-God uses friction!!
When there is friction in someone’s life, it is a sign that it is the beginning of God trying to do something in their life. The person has probably been pushing it away for a while. If you don’t deal with it/lean into it, then it will just cycle back. The person is only delaying the inevitable and ultimately, making life harder on themselves.
-Linus talked about how Christians can be ”crazy making” – a person who is not self-reflective, open to learn and to be taught and hear the ‘hard stuff’ (truth) often starts feeling “crazy” when we talk with them because what we are pushing doesn’t fit into their life’s perspective.
-PARENTING IN MINISTRY.
With parenting, view the entire family as being in ministry- kids, too. Bring the kids into it, do not try and protect them and have them off to the side away from adults and ministry (struggles and pain are a part of life!)
-----LEADERSHIP DEVELOPMENT-----
*Ask “in 5 years from now, what do we want to see?”
1) Continue to look out, reach out, and draw people in
2) Build a strong community
3) Watch for who will potentially rise up into leadership positions to help sustain (mixed marriages, French people, long term stays)
-develop them so that they take responsibility for some part of the ministry
-have the perspective of “WHAT WILL OUTLIVE US? Continue on without us?”
4) Ask “How do you develop those people along the way (in both organic and linear ways)?”
-last step…those people mature into leadership
-----5 OLYMIC RINGS-----
1) Ministry Development: understand passions, spiritual gifts, etc.
2) strategic Development: having some goals and outcomes in view (steps)…from coaching use the
S=
M=measurable
A=attainable
R=
T=
3) Character Development: the alignment of what we profess and project on the outside VS. what we have going on inside
-DO THE WORK, you’ve got yourself on your hands
-LEAN INTO IT!
-irritants (Hud keeps poking away at stuff we don’t even realize are issues)
4) Emotional Development (E.Q. not I.Q.)
-Ask “What is my intent?” and “What is my impact?”
5) Spiritual Development: being consistently connected with God- not mechanically either (being open to sensing His love, be out in nature, etc.)
<>
---------------
-do not ignore your spiritual conscience, spiritually CHECK-IN, if it doesn’t feel right, then listen to that
*example: Linus having to apologize in front of a large group…a few years ago he was at a conference and he felt that he should not get up and talk, then was pushed into it by one of the other speakers and while he was speaking, seriously put his foot in his mouth and ended up making people really angry, so he had to come back later and apologize- if only he has listened to the initial inner nagging telling him to not get up and speak in front of that group)
-read “Spiritual Leadership” by Sanders
-Ask yourself what you need to KEEP doing,
Ask yourself what you need to STOP doing,
And ask what you need to START doing.
-USE post-its, everyone write down 3 expectations & then put them on the wall…go through them together
-key words for a team: collaborative, humility, graciousness
-read “The Search To Belong” by Myers, we need a combination of the following four spaces…
1) PUBLIC space (ex: a lot of people gathered at a football game)
2) SOCIAL sPACE (small talk, snippets of catch up, serve the city)
3) PERSONAL sPACE (small groups, Alpha course, asking “How did the Connect conference go? What were some highlights?” etc.)
4) INTIMATE space- only a few select people, there’s more safety
*PERSONAL space and INTIMATE space often get confused!!
-Create ‘social space’ before and after the Sunday service or whatever event the church is putting on (a lot of church offer a coffee hour before, or the option of have dinner together afterwards, etc.)
-with serve the city, have a musical concert at the end
-----SINGLE PEOPLE/Women in CA-----
-CA values women in ministry and leadership
(Melinda, Katharine, Ruth Craig, Deb Hirsh, Rita, etc.)
-Singles, let couples be couples & Couples, let singles be singles
-----Tying Shoe Laces VS. Stretching Rubber-Bands-----
-TYING shoe laces (connecting others together) VS. Stretching rubber-bands (when people need to step up and take responsibility: example of child care- “Ok, everyone with a child- both father and mother- need to help out once a month with our Kids Program- then they are getting stretched)
-At a team meeting, check-in with each other about who might have a situation where someone is glomming on/needy, etc. (where you feel trapped)
*Some counselors/churches have an “ONLY 3 MEETINGS” rule, only 3 sessions so you don’t get absorbed by just a few community members (needy, clingy, etc.)
-Constantly communicate your vision- keep it visible!! Vision leaks!
Every message should have an element or reminder of vision
Definition: Vision is a picture of a preferable future
---------
-Why are we different? “we re-engage people”!
-we initiate, some people cannott handle it, they don’t know what to do with it, we’re on the offensive here…it’s a rare thing, most people just react/are defensive
-“AS YOU GO” DISCIPLEHSIP
-1 good purpose I wrote down that Linus said (he mentioned several): “equipping believers for effective ministry”
Hil & Dom breakfast with Linus & Sharron Morris:
-for ICCP, how do we reach more people than we’re losing?
(gradually build up the core of people staying)
-In MINISTRY, Linus and Sharron learned to set boundaries the hard way. Here are their examples:
*turn off phones at dinner
*email and make phone calls in one or two blocks of time a day, and that’s it- this allows you to have more emotional and relational time/creates space
*take days off
-In MINISTRY over the years, Linus & Sharron saw each other as a team…”we are in ministry together”
STAFF MEETING WITH LINUS & SHARRON:
-view transient community as an opportunity- NOT a future loss…view it as if you are making a “deposit” into these people’s lives
-ask God to always make what I am doing “fresh”
-Linus talked for a bit about Corey Ten Boom (look her up...the movie “The Hiding Place” was made from her autobiography)
-God uses friction!!
When there is friction in someone’s life, it is a sign that it is the beginning of God trying to do something in their life. The person has probably been pushing it away for a while. If you don’t deal with it/lean into it, then it will just cycle back. The person is only delaying the inevitable and ultimately, making life harder on themselves.
-Linus talked about how Christians can be ”crazy making” – a person who is not self-reflective, open to learn and to be taught and hear the ‘hard stuff’ (truth) often starts feeling “crazy” when we talk with them because what we are pushing doesn’t fit into their life’s perspective.
-PARENTING IN MINISTRY.
With parenting, view the entire family as being in ministry- kids, too. Bring the kids into it, do not try and protect them and have them off to the side away from adults and ministry (struggles and pain are a part of life!)
-----LEADERSHIP DEVELOPMENT-----
*Ask “in 5 years from now, what do we want to see?”
1) Continue to look out, reach out, and draw people in
2) Build a strong community
3) Watch for who will potentially rise up into leadership positions to help sustain (mixed marriages, French people, long term stays)
-develop them so that they take responsibility for some part of the ministry
-have the perspective of “WHAT WILL OUTLIVE US? Continue on without us?”
4) Ask “How do you develop those people along the way (in both organic and linear ways)?”
-last step…those people mature into leadership
-----5 OLYMIC RINGS-----
1) Ministry Development: understand passions, spiritual gifts, etc.
2) strategic Development: having some goals and outcomes in view (steps)…from coaching use the
S=
M=measurable
A=attainable
R=
T=
3) Character Development: the alignment of what we profess and project on the outside VS. what we have going on inside
-DO THE WORK, you’ve got yourself on your hands
-LEAN INTO IT!
-irritants (Hud keeps poking away at stuff we don’t even realize are issues)
4) Emotional Development (E.Q. not I.Q.)
-Ask “What is my intent?” and “What is my impact?”
5) Spiritual Development: being consistently connected with God- not mechanically either (being open to sensing His love, be out in nature, etc.)
<
---------------
-do not ignore your spiritual conscience, spiritually CHECK-IN, if it doesn’t feel right, then listen to that
*example: Linus having to apologize in front of a large group…a few years ago he was at a conference and he felt that he should not get up and talk, then was pushed into it by one of the other speakers and while he was speaking, seriously put his foot in his mouth and ended up making people really angry, so he had to come back later and apologize- if only he has listened to the initial inner nagging telling him to not get up and speak in front of that group)
-read “Spiritual Leadership” by Sanders
-Ask yourself what you need to KEEP doing,
Ask yourself what you need to STOP doing,
And ask what you need to START doing.
-USE post-its, everyone write down 3 expectations & then put them on the wall…go through them together
-key words for a team: collaborative, humility, graciousness
-read “The Search To Belong” by Myers, we need a combination of the following four spaces…
1) PUBLIC space (ex: a lot of people gathered at a football game)
2) SOCIAL sPACE (small talk, snippets of catch up, serve the city)
3) PERSONAL sPACE (small groups, Alpha course, asking “How did the Connect conference go? What were some highlights?” etc.)
4) INTIMATE space- only a few select people, there’s more safety
*PERSONAL space and INTIMATE space often get confused!!
-Create ‘social space’ before and after the Sunday service or whatever event the church is putting on (a lot of church offer a coffee hour before, or the option of have dinner together afterwards, etc.)
-with serve the city, have a musical concert at the end
-----SINGLE PEOPLE/Women in CA-----
-CA values women in ministry and leadership
(Melinda, Katharine, Ruth Craig, Deb Hirsh, Rita, etc.)
-Singles, let couples be couples & Couples, let singles be singles
-----Tying Shoe Laces VS. Stretching Rubber-Bands-----
-TYING shoe laces (connecting others together) VS. Stretching rubber-bands (when people need to step up and take responsibility: example of child care- “Ok, everyone with a child- both father and mother- need to help out once a month with our Kids Program- then they are getting stretched)
-At a team meeting, check-in with each other about who might have a situation where someone is glomming on/needy, etc. (where you feel trapped)
*Some counselors/churches have an “ONLY 3 MEETINGS” rule, only 3 sessions so you don’t get absorbed by just a few community members (needy, clingy, etc.)
-Constantly communicate your vision- keep it visible!! Vision leaks!
Every message should have an element or reminder of vision
Definition: Vision is a picture of a preferable future
---------
-Why are we different? “we re-engage people”!
-we initiate, some people cannott handle it, they don’t know what to do with it, we’re on the offensive here…it’s a rare thing, most people just react/are defensive
-“AS YOU GO” DISCIPLEHSIP
-1 good purpose I wrote down that Linus said (he mentioned several): “equipping believers for effective ministry”
Saturday, September 5, 2009
Bell on forgiveness
Forgiveness different from consequences and justice.
Consequences may be what it takes for them to change their ways.
Tim Keller (the reason for God)- “Agony to refrain from lashing out on someone. It is a form of suffering. You are absorbing the debt, taking the cost completely on yourself instead of taking it out on the other person. It hurts terribly. Many people would say that it leads to a kind of death.
But it is a death that leads to resurrection instead of the life long living death of bitterness and cynicism. You are not giving it any fuel and so the resentment burns lower and lower.”
You can’t be angry with a nameless organization. You are angry at a particular person within the church. To be free from those you need to name those people and forgive.
Forgiveness is a process. Sometimes lasts a lifetime like grief it isn’t just a once and over deal.
Samson ex. of revenge escalating.
Passive revenge
Secret celebrations
Pray for those who persecute you.
1 Peter 2 did not retaliate or issue threats, trusted himself to God who issues justice
Do not repay evil for evil.
Others, they should pay in this way in this timeframe. But me…
Anger builds up, waiting for a recipient to pass it off to. EX of elevator in EQ where they think of all the mean reasons that the elevator is not coming down yet, that someone is being careless with it instead of some benign reason.
There is another option
Say the pain will stop right here with me. Will we take hate, anger, and hurt and keep it in circulation? Enter into the Christ pattern of forgiveness.
Parker Palmer, “The cross says the pain stops here. The way of the cross is a way that absorbs pain and doesn’t pass it on, a way that transforms pain from a destructive impulse into creative power. When Jesus accepted the cross his death opened up a channel for the redeeming power of love.”
Source: Rob Bell at Boyd's church
Consequences may be what it takes for them to change their ways.
Tim Keller (the reason for God)- “Agony to refrain from lashing out on someone. It is a form of suffering. You are absorbing the debt, taking the cost completely on yourself instead of taking it out on the other person. It hurts terribly. Many people would say that it leads to a kind of death.
But it is a death that leads to resurrection instead of the life long living death of bitterness and cynicism. You are not giving it any fuel and so the resentment burns lower and lower.”
You can’t be angry with a nameless organization. You are angry at a particular person within the church. To be free from those you need to name those people and forgive.
Forgiveness is a process. Sometimes lasts a lifetime like grief it isn’t just a once and over deal.
Samson ex. of revenge escalating.
Passive revenge
Secret celebrations
Pray for those who persecute you.
1 Peter 2 did not retaliate or issue threats, trusted himself to God who issues justice
Do not repay evil for evil.
Others, they should pay in this way in this timeframe. But me…
Anger builds up, waiting for a recipient to pass it off to. EX of elevator in EQ where they think of all the mean reasons that the elevator is not coming down yet, that someone is being careless with it instead of some benign reason.
There is another option
Say the pain will stop right here with me. Will we take hate, anger, and hurt and keep it in circulation? Enter into the Christ pattern of forgiveness.
Parker Palmer, “The cross says the pain stops here. The way of the cross is a way that absorbs pain and doesn’t pass it on, a way that transforms pain from a destructive impulse into creative power. When Jesus accepted the cross his death opened up a channel for the redeeming power of love.”
Source: Rob Bell at Boyd's church
Friday, September 4, 2009
prayer for the need
I am feeling very heavy hearted about finding a new person to take over youth group when we leave. I feel called to get my education and what to have kids before too long. Where do I go from here? Do we wait? Stay? How will youth group move on? Who will love these kids? Who will walk with them to show them Christ is walking with them? Who will introduce them to a savior? Let them know that our world is broken and in need of a savior? Teach them about the kingdom? Encourage and love them?
I will miss them greatly if I go. Could I even go if they were not cared for? What kind of tradgedy would that be.
Lord,
Bring yours here. Show yourself in them. Reveal them.
Make your self and your will know to us.
We need you in this. We need you.
In love,
Adam
I will miss them greatly if I go. Could I even go if they were not cared for? What kind of tradgedy would that be.
Lord,
Bring yours here. Show yourself in them. Reveal them.
Make your self and your will know to us.
We need you in this. We need you.
In love,
Adam
Thursday, September 3, 2009
APEST
This shows your ministry style in relation to the philosophy of the fivefold ministry of Ephesians 4.
It measures your minstry motivation and expression.
APOSTLES extend the gospel. As the “sent ones,” they ensure that the faith is transmitted from one context to another and from one generation to the next. They are always thinking about the future, bridging barriers, establishing the church in new contexts, developing leaders, networking trans-locally. Yes, if you focus solely on initiating new ideas and rapid expansion, you can leave people and organizations wounded. The shepherding and teaching functions are needed to ensure people are cared for rather than simply used.
PROPHETS know God's will. They are particularly attuned to God and his truth for today. They bring correction and challenge the dominant assumptions we inherit from the culture. They insist that the community obey what God has commanded. They question the status quo. Without the other types of leaders in place, prophets can become belligerent activists or, paradoxically, disengage from the imperfection of reality and become other-worldly.
EVANGELISTS recruit. These infectious communicators of the gospel message recruit others to the cause. They call for a personal response to God's redemption in Christ, and also draw believers to engage the wider mission, growing the church. Evangelists can be so focused on reaching those outside the church that maturing and strengthening those inside is neglected.
SHEPHERDS nurture and protect. Caregivers of the community, they focus on the protection and spiritual maturity of God's flock, cultivating a loving and spiritually mature network of relationships, making and developing disciples. Shepherds can value stability to the detriment of the mission. They may also foster an unhealthy dependence between the church and themselves.
TEACHERS understand and explain. Communicators of God's truth and wisdom, they help others remain biblically grounded to better discern God's will, guiding others toward wisdom, helping the community remain faithful to Christ's word, and constructing a transferable doctrine. Without the input of the other functions, teachers can fall into dogmatism or dry intellectualism. They may fail to see the personal or missional aspects of the church's ministry.
From Forgotten ways
It measures your minstry motivation and expression.
APOSTLES extend the gospel. As the “sent ones,” they ensure that the faith is transmitted from one context to another and from one generation to the next. They are always thinking about the future, bridging barriers, establishing the church in new contexts, developing leaders, networking trans-locally. Yes, if you focus solely on initiating new ideas and rapid expansion, you can leave people and organizations wounded. The shepherding and teaching functions are needed to ensure people are cared for rather than simply used.
PROPHETS know God's will. They are particularly attuned to God and his truth for today. They bring correction and challenge the dominant assumptions we inherit from the culture. They insist that the community obey what God has commanded. They question the status quo. Without the other types of leaders in place, prophets can become belligerent activists or, paradoxically, disengage from the imperfection of reality and become other-worldly.
EVANGELISTS recruit. These infectious communicators of the gospel message recruit others to the cause. They call for a personal response to God's redemption in Christ, and also draw believers to engage the wider mission, growing the church. Evangelists can be so focused on reaching those outside the church that maturing and strengthening those inside is neglected.
SHEPHERDS nurture and protect. Caregivers of the community, they focus on the protection and spiritual maturity of God's flock, cultivating a loving and spiritually mature network of relationships, making and developing disciples. Shepherds can value stability to the detriment of the mission. They may also foster an unhealthy dependence between the church and themselves.
TEACHERS understand and explain. Communicators of God's truth and wisdom, they help others remain biblically grounded to better discern God's will, guiding others toward wisdom, helping the community remain faithful to Christ's word, and constructing a transferable doctrine. Without the input of the other functions, teachers can fall into dogmatism or dry intellectualism. They may fail to see the personal or missional aspects of the church's ministry.
From Forgotten ways
Trust comes before knowledge
In the Garden we chose knowledge over trust. We live in a knowledge based world view. 'Knowledge will take care of it'
We want clarity over trust.
We want to know before we trust but the only way we will get to know is if we trust first.
God tells Moses that he will know that He has been with Moses when his promises come true. Then he can look back and know. At the front end it is trust and his word.
Is it more important to be right (assert my rightness) or trust God? I ask myself.
We want clarity over trust.
We want to know before we trust but the only way we will get to know is if we trust first.
God tells Moses that he will know that He has been with Moses when his promises come true. Then he can look back and know. At the front end it is trust and his word.
Is it more important to be right (assert my rightness) or trust God? I ask myself.
Connect, Hebrews- Set aside every encumbrance, be intentional
Let us lay aside everything that hinders (or encumbrance)
This does not necessarily mean sin. It just holds us back. This happens when we say yes to everything and are unintentional.
"Therefore, since we are surrounded by such a great cloud of witnesses, let us throw off everything that hinders and the sin that so easily entangles, and let us run with perseverance the race marked out for us. Let us fix our eyes on Jesus, the author and perfecter of our faith, who for the joy set before him endured the cross, scorning its shame, and sat down at the right hand of the throne of God. Consider him who endured such opposition from sinful men, so that you will not grow weary and lose heart." Hebrews 12:1-3
This does not necessarily mean sin. It just holds us back. This happens when we say yes to everything and are unintentional.
"Therefore, since we are surrounded by such a great cloud of witnesses, let us throw off everything that hinders and the sin that so easily entangles, and let us run with perseverance the race marked out for us. Let us fix our eyes on Jesus, the author and perfecter of our faith, who for the joy set before him endured the cross, scorning its shame, and sat down at the right hand of the throne of God. Consider him who endured such opposition from sinful men, so that you will not grow weary and lose heart." Hebrews 12:1-3
Connect 09- Wrong religious reasons
Missional practices are secondary to the heart of the message. We can go wrong by focusing on the practice and nto the message behind the paractice.
people do religous things is because of...
Habit- It's what I've always done
Duty- What i'm supposed to do
Fear- What happens if I don't
Self Image- I like how it makes me look in the eyes of others
What if I came home to Tasha and brought her flower and she asked why and I said any of these reasons above?
Source- Dudly
I did see a Gallup poll that showed some good reasons people attend church...
For spiritual growth and guidance
25 protest.
17 catholic
Keeps me grounded/inspired
16
28
It's my faith
14
21
To worship God
16
13
The fellowship of other members/The community
17
3
Believe in God/Believe in religion
13
11
Brought up that way/A family value/Tradition
11
15
Below is interesting because only ten percent of the people who don't attend church say that they don't attend church because of their belief in God.
Americans who say they attend church only seldom or never -- a little over 40% of the adult population -- give a variety of reasons for their non-attendance.
(Asked of adult who seldom or never attend church services) What is the most important reason why you do not attend church or synagogue? [OPEN-ENDED]
BASED ON 439 ADULTS WHO SELDOM/NEVER ATTEND CHURCH
2007 Mar 26-29
%
THOUGHT-OUT, RATIONAL REASONS
Don't agree with organized religion/
what they preach
24
Don't believe in going to church
16
Atheist/Don't believe in God
10
Church wants/asks for too much money
3
PRACTICAL OR "DEFAULT" REASONS
Don't have time/Don't get around to it
21
Don't have a church I connect with
9
I'm lazy
6
Poor health/Disabled
2
Family members are different religions
1
Other
5
No reason in particular
6
No opinion
3
people do religous things is because of...
Habit- It's what I've always done
Duty- What i'm supposed to do
Fear- What happens if I don't
Self Image- I like how it makes me look in the eyes of others
What if I came home to Tasha and brought her flower and she asked why and I said any of these reasons above?
Source- Dudly
I did see a Gallup poll that showed some good reasons people attend church...
For spiritual growth and guidance
25 protest.
17 catholic
Keeps me grounded/inspired
16
28
It's my faith
14
21
To worship God
16
13
The fellowship of other members/The community
17
3
Believe in God/Believe in religion
13
11
Brought up that way/A family value/Tradition
11
15
Below is interesting because only ten percent of the people who don't attend church say that they don't attend church because of their belief in God.
Americans who say they attend church only seldom or never -- a little over 40% of the adult population -- give a variety of reasons for their non-attendance.
(Asked of adult who seldom or never attend church services) What is the most important reason why you do not attend church or synagogue? [OPEN-ENDED]
BASED ON 439 ADULTS WHO SELDOM/NEVER ATTEND CHURCH
2007 Mar 26-29
%
THOUGHT-OUT, RATIONAL REASONS
Don't agree with organized religion/
what they preach
24
Don't believe in going to church
16
Atheist/Don't believe in God
10
Church wants/asks for too much money
3
PRACTICAL OR "DEFAULT" REASONS
Don't have time/Don't get around to it
21
Don't have a church I connect with
9
I'm lazy
6
Poor health/Disabled
2
Family members are different religions
1
Other
5
No reason in particular
6
No opinion
3
FAST- discipleship
Article on FAST
FAST
They were willing to commit (faithful), give their time (available), seek after God with all their hearts (evidence of being Spirit-filled), and humble themselves to learn (teachable).
Three benchmarks we look for before graduating an apprentice on to greater responsibility—
calling
character
fruitfulness.
That apprentice, in turn, was required to take an apprentice under himself to help lead the group
FAST
They were willing to commit (faithful), give their time (available), seek after God with all their hearts (evidence of being Spirit-filled), and humble themselves to learn (teachable).
Three benchmarks we look for before graduating an apprentice on to greater responsibility—
calling
character
fruitfulness.
That apprentice, in turn, was required to take an apprentice under himself to help lead the group
Speaking is more of an expression of our hearts than a function of our abilities.
Speaking is more of an expression of our hearts than a function of our abilities.
Like Clint said, Good stage presence isn't having a big personality but having a right heart. Stage presence comes from the heart.
Jesus says that out of the heart the mouth overflows. (Matt 12:34)
Moses said that he could not lead his people but God said that he is choosing Moses. It was more about Moses' obedience to God than it was about his studdering.
We don't pray with big flowey words and long monologues like the nonchristians do. Why should we speak that way? (Mt 6:7)
We have been given a message. (1Jn 1:5 "This is the message we have heard from him and declare to you.") (Romans 10:14,17 how can they believe in the one of whom they have not heard? And how can they hear without someone preaching to them? ... faith comes from hearing the message, and the message is heard through the word of Christ.)
We have been given a voice. Our words are powerful. God's word is sharper than a double edged sword. (Col 3:16 Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly as you teach and admonish one another with all wisdom, and as you sing psalms, hymns and spiritual songs with gratitude in your hearts to God.)
I hope that others will be encouraged to use the voice that God has given to share our beautiful message. God will equip us for what He calls us to do.
(New thought)
Somehow we've gotten the idea that our words and our actions are exclusive. We think that because we have swung too far to talk that we need to let our actions do all the talking. We wait for people to ask us the reason for the way we live. But that doens't happen all the time since we are works in progress or because other may be blind to it. I
God reminds us how powerful our words are in passages like James'. If we forget this we will either be careless with our words and hurt people with them or we will lose the opportunities that God has set before us to pass on His message of love, redemption and relationship.
Words and actions were meant to go together. When one is forgoten the other one suffers. Words without action or actions without words are both crippled.
It seems somewhat misleading to do good things in hope that someone will ask you about why you are doing them. Or to talk about good life without living it yourself. It feels proud to expect people to notice how different we are. It is a good challenge but can it be expected? Shouldn't we be showing people that we are works in progress with them and telling them to keep their eyes on Jesus. Afterall Christianity is less about what we do than what has changed on the inside and how can we expect people to know what has changed on the inside without us telling them?
Jesus says, "“You are the light of the world. A city on a hill cannot be hidden. Neither do people light a lamp and put it under a bowl. Instead they put it on its stand, and it gives light to everyone in the house. In the same way, let your light shine before men, that they may see your good deeds and praise your Father in heaven." Matthew 5:14-16
Both deeds and words are mentioned in this passage. We must do good deeds, but how would they know to give praises to their father in heaven if they did not tell them in whose name they come in.
Paul write to the Philippian church,
"Do everything without complaining or arguing, so that you may become blameless and pure, children of God without fault in a crooked and depraved generation, in which you shine like stars in the universe as you hold outc the word of life—in order that I may boast on the day of Christ that I did not run or labor for nothing. But even if I am being poured out like a drink offering on the sacrifice and service coming from your faith, I am glad and rejoice with all of you. So you too should be glad and rejoice with me." Phil 2:14=18
Paul talks about both our toungues (complaining and arguing) and our actions (sacrifice and service). We will shine as we hold out the word of life.
Like Clint said, Good stage presence isn't having a big personality but having a right heart. Stage presence comes from the heart.
Jesus says that out of the heart the mouth overflows. (Matt 12:34)
Moses said that he could not lead his people but God said that he is choosing Moses. It was more about Moses' obedience to God than it was about his studdering.
We don't pray with big flowey words and long monologues like the nonchristians do. Why should we speak that way? (Mt 6:7)
We have been given a message. (1Jn 1:5 "This is the message we have heard from him and declare to you.") (Romans 10:14,17 how can they believe in the one of whom they have not heard? And how can they hear without someone preaching to them? ... faith comes from hearing the message, and the message is heard through the word of Christ.)
We have been given a voice. Our words are powerful. God's word is sharper than a double edged sword. (Col 3:16 Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly as you teach and admonish one another with all wisdom, and as you sing psalms, hymns and spiritual songs with gratitude in your hearts to God.)
I hope that others will be encouraged to use the voice that God has given to share our beautiful message. God will equip us for what He calls us to do.
(New thought)
Somehow we've gotten the idea that our words and our actions are exclusive. We think that because we have swung too far to talk that we need to let our actions do all the talking. We wait for people to ask us the reason for the way we live. But that doens't happen all the time since we are works in progress or because other may be blind to it. I
God reminds us how powerful our words are in passages like James'. If we forget this we will either be careless with our words and hurt people with them or we will lose the opportunities that God has set before us to pass on His message of love, redemption and relationship.
Words and actions were meant to go together. When one is forgoten the other one suffers. Words without action or actions without words are both crippled.
It seems somewhat misleading to do good things in hope that someone will ask you about why you are doing them. Or to talk about good life without living it yourself. It feels proud to expect people to notice how different we are. It is a good challenge but can it be expected? Shouldn't we be showing people that we are works in progress with them and telling them to keep their eyes on Jesus. Afterall Christianity is less about what we do than what has changed on the inside and how can we expect people to know what has changed on the inside without us telling them?
Jesus says, "“You are the light of the world. A city on a hill cannot be hidden. Neither do people light a lamp and put it under a bowl. Instead they put it on its stand, and it gives light to everyone in the house. In the same way, let your light shine before men, that they may see your good deeds and praise your Father in heaven." Matthew 5:14-16
Both deeds and words are mentioned in this passage. We must do good deeds, but how would they know to give praises to their father in heaven if they did not tell them in whose name they come in.
Paul write to the Philippian church,
"Do everything without complaining or arguing, so that you may become blameless and pure, children of God without fault in a crooked and depraved generation, in which you shine like stars in the universe as you hold outc the word of life—in order that I may boast on the day of Christ that I did not run or labor for nothing. But even if I am being poured out like a drink offering on the sacrifice and service coming from your faith, I am glad and rejoice with all of you. So you too should be glad and rejoice with me." Phil 2:14=18
Paul talks about both our toungues (complaining and arguing) and our actions (sacrifice and service). We will shine as we hold out the word of life.
Connect 09- Marriage
Roles and stereotypes are naive
It's not my mariage is hard and theirs is easy, marriage is a function of what you put into it.
When we are born we have no sense of identity
Then we make an attachment- Out of that attachment we form a sense of identity- it's based on need. Many people never gain a sense of attachment such as families where connections are not allowed in the family. We go through this until we are ten.
Detachment- recognise you are a unique individual
(See Eat,Pray,Love for an example of this)
Many marriages are based on need. But moving to maturity we need to move past attachment. Attachment is not initmacy. Intimacy does not occur until the next stage.
There is the cycle from attachment to detachment and back again.
"I don't want to be alone." to "I want to be alone because you consume me."
(See Eat,Pray,Love for an example of this)
Connecting- What most people call connnection is actually attachment. Attachment is predictible, connection is not.
Unhappy and Stable Marriages:
-See marriage as completion; two halves making a whole and not two wholes coming together. "If you love God more than you love your spouse you will love your spouse more than if you love your spouse more than God."
-Characterized by relationship of demands. They see the other person for what he/she provides for them and expect/demand for them to complete it. ex. of one person always starting the conversation and the other person relying on them to do that.
-Think about marriage as natural and self maintaining. Think a good marriage is a gift. If only we find the right person than everything will be alright.
-Are reactive and not responsive
-Think "if you really knew me you would leave me."
-Wants to change the other person's culture. You be like me. (Colonial approach)
-Don't want to know how they impact the other person. Don't want to see who they really are.
-Is about control and dependancy (follows the pattern of addiction)
-Emmeshed, co-dependant
In Healthy Marriages:
-Exposes their incompetencies and emptiness. See exposure as an opportunity to move toward mature at each exposure. Not looking for the other person to complete them.
-Knows a good marrage is an achievement that takes a lot of work. (and a gift from God.) Understand our relationship is breakable. They are intentional, relational, and make counter intuative actions like forgiveness, exposure, and confession etc.
-Plays together
-Respects the other person's culture. Knows that they have no control over wheather the other person understands them. Studies what the other person does, how they are shaped, longings, history, reactions,etc (antropologist approach)
Ex of potato. Can find potato usually but if we peel it than harder or mash it it is impossible. Why do we peel or mash our personalities. Let the unique indiviual personality come out.
-Makes their own model. Looks different from other people's marriages. No biblical model for a healthy marriage. Corriagraph your own dance.
Other thoughts:
Men and women have more like 85% the same and 15% different and not the other way around.
Processing with an intravert or extravert is still necessary. Intraverts like to have limits on the length of the converstaion. Ok to say, "I want to talk about it but just not right now." as long as you make a time to talk about it later.
In marriage you make a vow to God and not to the other person.
We are maticulously made. We will never know the other person fully because they are infinately complex.
We don't usually need agreement. We need understanding.
If pathology is invloved it changes things.
Q. How does someone break out of the attachment/ detachment cycle? Attach to God?
Source: Hud McWilliam
It's not my mariage is hard and theirs is easy, marriage is a function of what you put into it.
When we are born we have no sense of identity
Then we make an attachment- Out of that attachment we form a sense of identity- it's based on need. Many people never gain a sense of attachment such as families where connections are not allowed in the family. We go through this until we are ten.
Detachment- recognise you are a unique individual
(See Eat,Pray,Love for an example of this)
Many marriages are based on need. But moving to maturity we need to move past attachment. Attachment is not initmacy. Intimacy does not occur until the next stage.
There is the cycle from attachment to detachment and back again.
"I don't want to be alone." to "I want to be alone because you consume me."
(See Eat,Pray,Love for an example of this)
Connecting- What most people call connnection is actually attachment. Attachment is predictible, connection is not.
Unhappy and Stable Marriages:
-See marriage as completion; two halves making a whole and not two wholes coming together. "If you love God more than you love your spouse you will love your spouse more than if you love your spouse more than God."
-Characterized by relationship of demands. They see the other person for what he/she provides for them and expect/demand for them to complete it. ex. of one person always starting the conversation and the other person relying on them to do that.
-Think about marriage as natural and self maintaining. Think a good marriage is a gift. If only we find the right person than everything will be alright.
-Are reactive and not responsive
-Think "if you really knew me you would leave me."
-Wants to change the other person's culture. You be like me. (Colonial approach)
-Don't want to know how they impact the other person. Don't want to see who they really are.
-Is about control and dependancy (follows the pattern of addiction)
-Emmeshed, co-dependant
In Healthy Marriages:
-Exposes their incompetencies and emptiness. See exposure as an opportunity to move toward mature at each exposure. Not looking for the other person to complete them.
-Knows a good marrage is an achievement that takes a lot of work. (and a gift from God.) Understand our relationship is breakable. They are intentional, relational, and make counter intuative actions like forgiveness, exposure, and confession etc.
-Plays together
-Respects the other person's culture. Knows that they have no control over wheather the other person understands them. Studies what the other person does, how they are shaped, longings, history, reactions,etc (antropologist approach)
Ex of potato. Can find potato usually but if we peel it than harder or mash it it is impossible. Why do we peel or mash our personalities. Let the unique indiviual personality come out.
-Makes their own model. Looks different from other people's marriages. No biblical model for a healthy marriage. Corriagraph your own dance.
Other thoughts:
Men and women have more like 85% the same and 15% different and not the other way around.
Processing with an intravert or extravert is still necessary. Intraverts like to have limits on the length of the converstaion. Ok to say, "I want to talk about it but just not right now." as long as you make a time to talk about it later.
In marriage you make a vow to God and not to the other person.
We are maticulously made. We will never know the other person fully because they are infinately complex.
We don't usually need agreement. We need understanding.
If pathology is invloved it changes things.
Q. How does someone break out of the attachment/ detachment cycle? Attach to God?
Source: Hud McWilliam
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